Jack Bauer and the ACLU visit AFF Chicago
The debate over torture (or enhanced interrogation techniques) is one that has divided conservatives and libertarians since the early years of the Bush Administration. On November 11th, AFF Chicago was pleased to keep that debate going, and perhaps find some common ground, by hosting a well-informed, entertaining panel at Chicago’s Hunt Club.
Moderating the debate was April Green of Catalyst Strategies, who opened the discussion by posing to the panel and audience the moral and national security questions any debate on the subject of torture inevitably raises.
Those arguing in favor of the Bush Administration’s enhanced interrogation techniques were Eric Kohn of Urquhart Media and Kyle Stone of the Chicago Young Republicans. Those arguing against torture were Brian Burch of Fidelis and CatholicVote.com and Ed Yohnka of the Illinois ACLU.
Mr. Kohn kicked things off by acknowledging the white elephant in the room: Jack Bauer, the fictional national-security agent who consistently saves the day in Fox’s “24” by doing the things the more squeamish characters on the show won’t. Eric’s point wasn’t that someone like Bauer should be the paradigm of U.S. interrogation policy, but simply that Bauer’s motivation to save lives should be the starting point of any debate on the question. Mr. Kohn stressed that, unlike tyrannical regimes that use torture as punishment for political dissidents, the United States has waterboarded only the very worst terrorists in an effort to gain valuable information.
Mr. Stone added to Mr. Kohn’s defense of the Bush Administration by noting that only 3 terrorists–out of hundreds captured on the battlefield–were ever waterboarded, underlining the point that the controversial technique was rarely used, and then only on the “worst of the worst.” Mr. Stone also reminded the audience and panel that FDR and Harry Truman conducted wartime operations that by today’s standards would be considered criminal, but were part of a strategy to win a war.
Arguing against techniques he considers torture, Mr. Burch said that torturing human beings runs counter to a freedom and limited government. A government that feels justified in torturing individuals is a government that has already outstripped its constitutional limits. The so-called “ticking timebomb” defense, Mr. Burch said, relies on a scenario as unlikely as any “24” plot line. Rather than subject terrorists to torture techniques, Mr. Burch said that the United States must be “more creative” in how it extracts information.
Lastly, Mr. Yohnka reminded the audience that the United States executed Japanese military commanders who had waterboarded U.S. troops during World War II. “It was torture then, it is torture now,” said Mr. Yohnka. He said that the “interrogation memos” written by the Bush Justice Department advocate techniques that are in clear violation of the Constitution. Moreover, Mr. Yohnka noted that waterboarding terrorists yielded no information of an impending attack.
The roundtable could have continued for another hour considering the level of interaction from the audience following the panel’s statements. Representatives from both sides of the debate felt their views were represented accurately, and spent a few minutes speaking to the panelists individually after the event was adjourned.
Stay tuned for an announcement of the next AFF event in Chicago, and be sure to sign up for the Room 101 Chicago e-newsletter here.
