AFF's Doublethink

Gene S. — November 3, 2003 at 12:29 pm

Well, I agree with just about everything you say…except the part about ‘boring’ music. U2 certainly *sound* great musically. If only they would follow Laura Ingraham’s advice: “Shut up and sing”.

Gene

kitty — November 3, 2003 at 1:00 pm

thank you for pointing out that bono & co. are focusing their campaign on american citizens in particular… as if we are the bad guys, purposely downtrodding the underdogs of the world and withholding our mounds of stray cash from needy children the world over.
i am tired of being seen as overpriveleged and selfish just for being born in this country. let the french air condition their own country.
kitty

Lori — November 3, 2003 at 1:25 pm

Kudos to the author. I, too, have had it with Americans being accused of being responsible for everyone and everything in the world. More importantly, I am sick and tired of non-citizens of this country DEMANDING things (and, unfortunately, usually getting them).

Jeff — November 3, 2003 at 1:28 pm

Bono has done nothing but praised the US for its help with the programs he supports. How come you left that out???

Jeff — November 3, 2003 at 1:31 pm

Rock star Bono praises Bush for AIDS plans
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/07/08/loc_wwwloc1triafrib8.html

Jeff — November 3, 2003 at 1:33 pm

Do you folks here believe in God?

Jeff — November 3, 2003 at 1:35 pm

The Bono story posed an unusual challenge. Evangelicals often have a nagging question about celebrities who have made various comments about Jesus but who stop short of the Four Spiritual Laws. What do they believe about God? In Bono’s case, much to the surprise of the evangelicals at the meeting, the singer answered that question up-front and affirmed his personal faith in Christ.

“When I met him, he seemed very real, very low key,” Blunt says. “I asked people coming out of the meeting [about Bono]. They were very surprised that he seemed very sincere, ‘humble’ in how he presented himself and what he had to say. They all came out singing his praises.”

from http://www.christianitytoday.com

Jeff — November 3, 2003 at 1:37 pm

oh, and ove 22 nations have agreed to relieve 3rd World debt as Bono “asked” - not demanded.

Gigi — November 3, 2003 at 1:52 pm

The point at hand is not how well Bono presented his request, nor is it how grateful he is. The point is he should not have been making said request in the first place.

Robo — November 3, 2003 at 2:50 pm

I have never understood the absolute contempt and even hatred that some people express towards Bono for his efforts to help the poor and under-priveleged around the World.

First of all, the author of this article made some remarks that demonstrate that she obviously hates U2 as a band. Fair enough. However, it is wholly unfair to berate someone’s genuinely altruistic nature just because you think their music is “self-derivative” (whatever the hell that means - you influence yourself ?).

The opening analogy was tiresome at best and ultimately ridiculous. Then, the author delivered a pathetic diatribe about Bono’s sunglasses and rock star “ego”. And in a lame attempt to overlook his very admirable personal experience, the author just glosses over the fact that Bono has spent time working with the poor and dying in Africa. Why would anyone belittle that ? Bono’s experience in Africa gives him every right to have a passionate view on the problems there.

As for his political credentials, he is as qualified as anyone else to have strong political opinions. What gives him the right to an audience at the White House ? Well, in fact, nothing does. However, the fact that he gets to have an audience at the White House (due to his celebrity status) and, most importantly, chooses to use this chance to try to improve the quality of life for millions of people in Africa has to be commended.

The author displays incredible ignorance in suggesting that Bono and his “cohorts” take care of the financial problems facing Africa. Someone should run the numbers by Ms. Ankrom and give her an idea of the sort of money involved here.

The fact is that America DOES have a duty to help Africa and we should be very thankful that Bono feels morally compelled to ask for help. America and Americans love to think of themselves as World liberators spreading democracy around the globe. But then they become hostile when a “non-citizen” of America has the utter cheek to ask for help on behalf of millions of starving and disease-ridden people.

Elanor Ankrom epitomises the ugly American - selfish, ignorant and narrow-minded. If Elanor Ankrom in her lifetime can accomplish even a fraction of what Bono has already accomplished, she’ll be lucky.

glo — November 3, 2003 at 3:12 pm

Bravo Ellie,

I appreciated your articles humor as well as it’s much needed point. I hope to read many more like it.

I take my hat off to you…. top marks….

Heather — November 3, 2003 at 3:15 pm

Thank you, Gigi! If Bono wants money spent to help folks with AIDS, then Bono should spend Bono’s money, not talk the feds into giving the money they force from me at gunpoint to people with AIDS. If Bono wants debt relief for third world countries, then Bono is welcome to spend Bono’s money on it. I can find more valuable things to use my money for!

Parker Chandler — November 3, 2003 at 3:39 pm

It’s amazing how self-righteous people attack well-reasoned, well-thought out, articles on the disease of covetousness and can only respond with inflammatory, ad-hominem attack verbage. How do either Jeff or Robo know how much Ms. Ankrom cares about AIDS ? From the sounds of her article she just doesn’t like the idea of rich people telling leaders of rich countries what charities they ought to be supporting?

Ms. Ankrom simply opposes the sin of coveteousness and rightly so. No one, certainly not millionaire rock stars, has any moral authority to dictate what is or what should be the charity of choice for anyone. It is precisely this type of irrational evil thinking which leads to socialist decay. I think I’m plenty capable of deciding on my own which charities I find most effective. In fact, if the government would get out of the ‘charity’ business, people in need would be a whole lot better off. I can assure you it takes a lot less money to administer a private charity than it does to run a government bureaucracy.

Personally, I’ve never seen a government run program of any kind that does a good job of anything. Give me one good reason why solving the AIDS problem in Africa is any different. Between the U.N., the U.S., the IMF, the ‘dictator-of-the-week’, and the rest of the government sponsored ‘charitable’ organizations, you can bet plenty of money has been allocated toward this problem. The real problem is, just like every other government run project, most of the money goes to administrating, furnishing, decorating, traveling, advertising, building offices, dining, and rubbing elbows with other important people and very little goes to the actual people in need.
No sir! Give me twelve nuns, and one caring doctor, and private donations and I’ll show you a charity that works.

kitty — November 3, 2003 at 4:25 pm

robo,
why DOES america have a duty to help africa?
of course they have horrible problems, but why is it specifically america’s obligation to fix them? because we have more money?
how socialist.
and parker chandler - well said. supportive families and churches and private charities are much better help to anyone in need than government agencies.
kitty

Ivan — November 3, 2003 at 4:29 pm

I would ask “Robo”–whose idea of reasoned discussion seems to include anonymously hurling personal insults at somebody who criticizes somebody he/she idolizes–just where does the U.S. Constitution “obligate” the U.S. government to assist anybody outside U.S. borders with U.S. tax dollars? Moral obligations to help others fall on individuals, not governments.

Eleanor Ankrom isn’t criticizing Bono for trying to help people, but for trying to do it with other people’s money–especially from people much, much poorer than he–and for being pompous and preachy while doing it. If Bono really wants to help people, then he shouldn’t be doing it for the praise, and it shouldn’t bother him what people say. Also, it shouldn’t bother his fans what people say about him.

Lou Reed, in “Starman” (from his 1988 album “New York”), best summed up this phenomenon of the morally self-important celebrity:

“Does anybody need another self-righteous rock singer, whose nose, he says, has led him straight to God?”

montgomery — November 3, 2003 at 5:45 pm

My tax dollars are not alms for the poor. If I decide to give my hard earned money away I think I should be able to give it to the charity of my choice. My government is not in the business of charity.

Justin — November 3, 2003 at 6:27 pm

Yeah, I agree! I don’t want my tax dollars to go to some crazy guy who’s going to take money stolen from the taxpayers to try to fulfill his cockamamie scheme to remake the world through central planning.

That is, unless it’s done under the pretext of blasting the crap out of Iraq…

John — November 3, 2003 at 7:01 pm

One of the most important facts is completely missed. His solution is worse than the problem. I’ve worked for 17 years in the financial services industry and am insulted some uneducated twit is telling me about finance. These countries are in very bad shape because of corruption and bad economic policies. Rather than asking for debt forgiveness, he should ask for retribution from the corrupt leaders that stole the money and the equally evil communist / socialist leaders that wasted the money. If we forgive the debt, we will generate moral hazard. Lenders will be willing to lend to corrupt and stupid borrowers, especially poor countries advocated by rock stars, if they know they would be bailed out.

We should round up people like Imelda Marcos and their cronies and torture them until they cough up the money. Then, go to the leaders, who wasted the precious resources in their control, and execute them. Finally, pass laws barring any communist, socialist or progressives from holding office in any country getting a bail out.

Without fixing the root of the problem, in ten to fifteen years, we will have some other rich, self-important celebrity wasting your hard-earned money.

Andrea — November 3, 2003 at 9:04 pm

Wrong-O ROB-O

America does NOT have an obligation to help Africa or anyone else except Americans. I read Ms. Ankrom’s article with great interest and all I can say is WELL SAID MS. ANKROM!!!!!!

All I can say to you Rob- your judgement of character makes your response invalid…not even worth reading….WE should THANK Bono? You epitomize the values of the world…ricockulous

Ardillero — November 3, 2003 at 11:29 pm

Great article. I think that he should change his name to Banal, because that is what he often is. I do enjoy some of U2’s music (especially “The Unforgettable Fire”) but like R.E.M.’s Michael Stipe, the lead singer is often insufferable. But if you want a rock star who really sums up the word “hypocritical”, it would have to be Bob Geldof. Maybe you can give him credit for starting LiveAid, but his harassment played a role in Michael Hutchence’s suicide. In any case, the band INXS definitely had a greater impact than Bob’s Boontown Rats. Maybe they could start a collaboration called Bonotone Rats?!

Robo — November 4, 2003 at 10:00 am

There seems to be one predominant question stemming from my last posting:

WHY DOES AMERICA HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO HELP AFRICA ?

First, I’d like to address the imbecils who challenged me based on the US Constitution. Of course the US Constitution says nothing about assisting foreign countries. It is certainly not a legal obligation. I am talking about something much more important - a moral obligation.

That said, it is not America’s sole responsibility to solve the World’s problems. No one can expect America to singlehandedly help Afirca. It is a global responsibility. However, America has to realize that it cannot select the World problems that it wants to address like some kind of global buffet. While America is “liberating” Iraq, millions are starving to death and dying of AIDS in Africa. Does this really seem right to anyone ? Americans are so concerned about where their hard-earned tax dollars are going. Well, your dim-witted president is about to spend 87 Billion on “foreign” soil.

Now lets not digress into a debate about the War in Iraq. My point is simply that America has nominated itself as the World’s leader. There are no longer World Super-Powers. There is just one Hyper-Power - America. The USA says it’s fighting a global War againt Terror. Well, if any American thinks that terror can be fought without fighting poverty, they are sorely mistaken.

Bono said something very insightful recently - “This generation will be remembered for three things - the internet, the War on Terror, and the fact that Africa was on fire while the World stood by with watering cans”.

This is something we ALL should be trying to solve. Bono is just doing all he can to generate finance to address the problem. It’s not self-serving in any way. His existence as a rock-star would continue regardless of his efforts to help Africa. So why else is he doing this besides genuinely caring about it ?

America likes to push its weight around when it feels like it, but then gets offended when someone pulls.

John — November 4, 2003 at 10:32 am

The above article and discussion, to me, epitomize the massive wedge driven between modern libertarian / conservatives and everyone else. We are ready to crucify liberals who judge our President on the basis of his inability to formulate a gramattically correct sentence, and we berate those like Michael Moore who launch contentless rhetorical wars against unwitting targets. Yet, when we have our chance to criticize a liberal in the same way, we launch into a substanceless, “Coulteresque” attack on their nicknames, greasy hair, and use of “the AIDS” rather than “AIDS.” Bravo. Good form, and an excellent way to provoke thoughtful discussion rather than mind numbingly endless division.

While Ms. Ankrom has many valid arguments upon which she could (and, at times, does) rely, these arguments are obfuscated by combative rhetoric and pretentious dismissiveness of any argument that dares to assert this â??rich uncleâ??sâ? obligation to our brothers and sisters around the world. The fact is, we DO have a moral (though, as Robo points out, not Constitutional) obligation to those being massacred in U.S. supported regimes like Sudan and in AIDS infested areas like Africa, and while we (libertarian/conservatives) oppose governmental action in these areas, it always surprises me that we are so quick to attack those rich and famous like Bono who ARE fulfilling this private moral obligation, without self-directing any criticism to a populace that so often does not take its own moral obligations seriously.

People like Bono will never understand conservative arguments until we, as a group, begin to behave self-critically and take our moral obligations seriously. There would be no need for aid if more people would cut a check to the Christians Children Fund once in a while, and, seeing as we give proportionally less of our GDP than any developed nation in the world to foreign aid, until we demonstrate the efficacy of private charity in remedying these circumstances our free market arguments are likely to fall on deaf ears. Additionally, the more we imitate the liberal tendency to attack superficial personal traits rather than the substance of someoneâ??s actions and arguments, the more we perpetuate a discourse incapable of real and effective resolution.

jo — November 4, 2003 at 11:44 am

The fact that the U.S. Constitution does not say anything about helping foreign countries doesn’t have to do with a legal obligation, it is about the GOVERNMENTS obligation, OF WHICH THEY HAVE NONE. Our government is based upon the constitution ( or so my optimistic self would like to think) therefore the only imbecile here is the SOCIALIST who likes to toss it around. Bono is going to the WHITE HOUSE, asking for our TAX PAYERS money. The Question is NOT should Africa get financial support, the question is should it be coming from our government. IT should NOT. However BONO seems to think differently. . He isn’t talking about HIS tax dollars, he is talking about MINE.
Moral obligation. We each have our own moral obligations which we can choose to fullfill or no.
Its sweet that bono really cares. Let him go care in Ireland. Let him ask his government for money.
I LIKE to think ( again the hopeless optimist) that I live in a Democratic Republic. For the people by the people.
There is nothing libertarian about sending government dollars to Africa. America HAS NO OBLIGATION. It isn’t a question of a LEGAL one or a MORAL one. It is not for the government to take care of its citizens moral obligations or to decide what its citizens moral obligations are but to uphold and protect america and our rights, it is to serve the people, not to dictate them. Let each man attend to his moral obligations quietly and without grabing after other peoples money to do so. Bono has no right to critisize or ” request” U.S. Tax payers dollars.
The point is it should have nothing to do with the government. And if private charities are not doing enough let Bono donate to them, and let everyone fullfill his moral obligations as a free man. It is a matter of the individual.

Tony L. — November 4, 2003 at 1:09 pm

It seems to me that if Bono truly cared about the ignorant Africans, he would donate a little of his own money to the cause, rather than sucking it up from the less “accomplished”. Or would he prefer to buy different shades of tinted sunglasses?

Robo — November 4, 2003 at 1:12 pm

“Let him go care in Ireland. Let him ask his Government for money”.

He does. That’s the whole point. It’s EVERYONE’S responsibility to help out. I thought I made that clear in my last posting. But it is a matter of proportion. Ireland per capita is one of the most charitable countries in Europe. The Irish have been brought up to appreciate human suffering and the plight of others less fortunate than themselves. It is this generosity of spirit that jo above seems to be bereft of.

America is the richest country in the World. And not just slightly. It is incredibly richer than most other countries. Doesn’t it just seem right to help people who were not fortunate enough to be born in America ? Purely on the premise that human beings are a compassionate species - does America not have a moral duty to help other human beings ? Surely American “citizenship” is completely irrelevant when we are talking about saving human lives anywhere in the World.

As for jo’s little rant about the Government being “for the people by the people” and that “it is not for the Government to take care of its citizens’ moral obligations or to decide what its citizens’ moral obligations are”, I will give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he is just incredibly naieve.

jo, here’s something to ponder before you post anything else that might embarass you:

“Liberty for the Iraqi people is a great moral cause” - President George W. Bush

Gene — November 4, 2003 at 1:37 pm

“Do not tell me â?¦ of my obligation to put all poor men in good situations. Are they my poor? I tell thee, thou foolish philanthropist, that I grudge the dollar, the dime, the cent, I give to such men as do not belong to me and to whom I do not belong.”
Ralph Waldo Emerson

Jeff — November 4, 2003 at 1:38 pm

I love that you all say Bono hasn’t donated any money to the poor. Do you have any citation for that proposition? I’m willing to bet big bucks you’re dead wrong.

And, how do you know he’s an “uneducated twit” like one of you dubbed him? Because he disagrees with you he must be uneducated, eh?

Parker — November 4, 2003 at 2:26 pm

It seems rather apparent that John, Jeff, and Robo posit their entire presupposition upon the argument that if they decide a particular issue impresses a moral obligation upon them, it automatically transfers to everyone else which is morally reprehensible. Furthermore, if they feel obligated by some deep rooted urge to give money to this “moral obligation” they then believe they possess the authority and the right to utilize the government to coerce their fellow man into the same financial obligation. This presupposes the right to legalized theft. Which is likewise a moral falsity. No one, especially the government, can impose a moral financial obligation on anyone.
As an example: Suppose I have a charity which provides medicine, service, and comfort to AIDS patients in the Republic of Country A. We do the exact same work that Bono’s charity does, only his favorite charity does it’s work in Country B. (Africa) Now, despite the fact both charities offer the same services for the same disease there are only X dollars available for one of the two charities. How can one charity be more deserving than the other? Who decides? Jeff and Robo? The government? The majority? The individual donor making a conscious moral decision? The fact is there are many worthy and deserving causes which could argue that they too are deserving of the Rich Uncle and the Equally Rich Foreign Oil Magnate’s money. However, no one has a right to a portion of anything that is his neighbors.The bottom line is it is totally and completely immoral for governments to play the role of Rich Uncle and ERFOM. Therein is the crux of the matter. It is morally wrong for Governments to extort money from individuals and use that money for ‘worthy’ causes which some deem more important than others. Especially if the money taken from someone precludes them from now being able to support their equally ‘worthy’ cause. This is defacto a denial of that persons right to liberty and individual pursuit of happiness. If their worthy cause is unworthy that is between them and God. Not them and you. If, in their mind, their worthy cause is more worthy than your cause would you want them forcing their cause on you? Or would you prefer to reserve that decision to your own conscience? I suspect any person respecting law, ethics and morality in a civilized society would choose the latter. Unfortunately, we have abandoned these principles and shroud them in the veil of morality and goodness. When, in fact, these do-gooders are nothing but wolves in sheeps clothing.

Robo — November 4, 2003 at 2:53 pm

The question remains:

Is America’s Government, created for and by the people in this great land of freedom and democracy, not already spending billions of tax payers’ dollars on causes that the Government deems “worthy” but which have not been mandated by the American people who are supposedly so passionate about their individual determinations?

The point I’m trying to drive home here is the disgusting hypocrisy of an American people who are so fervently opposed to their “hard earned money” going to a cause that they didn’t choose to donate to. But the same American people seem to be flag-waving as their Government spends billions of THEIR dollars (not to mention the shameful human cost) on invading soveregin nations and then “rebuilding” those same nations.

Jeff — November 4, 2003 at 3:09 pm

Dear Parker

you say “no one has a right to a portion of anything that is his neighbors” - I’m quite sure I never said anyone has a “right” to anything of their neighbors. What happened here is that the democratically elected government of the United States decided to give money to help fight disease and save lives. If you don’t like the way we operate our government here in America then vote out those in power. Its as simple as that.

And, again no has a right to their neighbors property. But, we do have obligations to love our neighbors. Not a legal one. Not a constitutional one. But, a moral one.

Jeff — November 4, 2003 at 3:13 pm

from Hoypuhloy.blogspot.com - the main point on WHAT our government is - people getting together to make decisions about collective responsibility and how to best deal with needs and issues that impact us as individual citizens- seems to be relevant here:

Throughout modern politics, partisans have engaged in a false fight over big government vs small government. We hear this big v. small debate all the time and no doubt itâ??ll be a constant theme as we head into the 2004 election season.

A look back in time provides a great example of the pointlessness of the rhetoric surrounding this ongoing debate. In an editorial published not long after 9/11, Sen. Charles Schumer attempted to make the case that a return to “big government” is the only way to confront the challenges that lie ahead for our nation post September 11th. First, let me note that big government is one of those terms, like “liberal” for example, that is recklessly slung about to the point that no one really knows what it means. Does big government mean 1) too many federal employees/officials, 2) too many federal agencies/programs, or 3) too much
spending by the federal government?

For an illustrative example of the ambiguous nature of the phrase, Sen. Schumer noted that President Clinton did more “shrinking [of the federal government] than any other President.” This statement is partially true. But, it reflects the minimal value of the ambiguous phrase big government.

It is true that President Clinton did reduce the size of government. However, it is also true that the federal government spent a lot of money during that time period. Much of it on the military. As Army Gen. Henry H. Shelton, then chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, said at the time and then Defense Secretary Cohen noted, it was President Clinton’s “fiscal policy that allowed, and his pen that signed, the largest increase in military spending in some 15 years — historic investment in the next generation of tools and technologies, and the largest increase in military pay and benefits in a generation.” Now that our troops are spread across the globe and we are still fighting Bin Laden and other shadowy foes, I for one am glad we spent that money and made that investment in America.

So, did the government get smaller because we cut its size or bigger because we spent more money? By utilizing a rhetorically empty phrase like big government Sen. Schumer - and others who recklessly toss it around - does nothing to advance the real discussion that should be taking place. Instead, rhetoric like this sparks more needless race to the bottom debates on the size of government as opposed to the real issues of how government is run and what exactly is happening in government. Case in point is the right-wing tabloid National Reviewâ??s piece published the very next day entitled, â??Is Chuck Schumer on Crack?â? No real discussion on the actual issues, but plenty of personal animus for Schumer and a never ending spew of useless rhetoric. Partisan ideologues get a kick out of this type of exchange, but it does nothing to help our national debate or benefit Americans.

Of course the empty rhetorical question of big v small government is really irrelevant. Government is one area of human existence where size doesn’t matter. The important point isnâ??t whether government is big or small, the real question is whether government is working efficiently and positively impacting the people who permit it to exist.

Much of the rhetoric is driven by people who claim to love America, but consistently deride our form of government. At its core, their attack is based on a false claim on what government is. They claim government is some person-less machine that runs every aspect of our lives. Obviously that is false.

Government is people. If everyone who worked in government walked off the job government would no longer exist. Government is not a machine, rather it is people getting together to make decisions about collective responsibility and how to best deal with needs and issues that impact us as individual citizens, but are impractical for us to address in our individual capacity. Snowplowing is an example. Instead of all of us taking turns shoveling our neighborhood streets, we pitch in and buy a big plow and pay someone to come to our streets to take care of the problem.

Homeland Security is another prime example. President Bush has spent millions of tax dollars to produce and promote the color coded terror system. Yet, firefighters and other first responders are still shortchanged on proper equipment. Equipment they desperately need to protect us better then we could protect ourselves. The point is that collective money must be spent on many important services that we need, but can’t afford to effectively provide for ourselves.

JFK himself summed it up as follows:

â??I know that there are those who want to turn everything over to the government. I don’t at all. I want the individuals to meet their responsibilities. And I want the states to meet their responsibilities. But I think there is also a national responsibility. The argument has been used against every piece of social legislation in the last twenty-five years. The people of the United States individually could not have developed the Tennessee Valley; collectively they could have. A cotton farmer in Georgia or a peanut farmer or a dairy farmer in Wisconsin and Minnesota, he cannot protect himself against the forces of supply and demand in the market place; but working together in effective governmental programs he can do so. Seventeen million Americans, who live over sixty-five on an average Social Security check of about seventy-eight dollars a month, they’re not able to sustain themselves individually, but they can sustain themselves through the social security system. I don’t believe in big government, but I believe in effective governmental action. And I think that’s the only way that the United States is going to maintain its freedomâ?

Indeed, those who attack every single government program attack freedom itself. We need to be organized to defend ourselves and strive towards domestic tranquility. Thatâ??s all government is, citizens coming together to work toward common goals. To get there, we donâ??t need big government or small government - just good government.

Tony L. — November 4, 2003 at 3:15 pm

Allow me to state that helping a people who has long been tortured by a dictator is much more “morally right” than helping a people who has long been ignoring the help and money that has gone to an easily fixed problem.

jp — November 4, 2003 at 4:41 pm

I don’t think I have anything to add or repeat after reading Parkers message. I thought that it was very well said and pegged down exactly what I was trying to get at.
Robo, my quote about Bono going to Ireland was not to suggest that he doesn’t, but to suggest that he remains there with his insistent propositions. I also feel that american citizenship is quite relevent when we are talking about taking money from said citizens.
Simply, you are a socialist, and I am a libertarian.
As I said I am a hopeless optimist. I like to think that the government is for the people and by the people, and that we still have our rights.

Ivan — November 4, 2003 at 5:49 pm

Robo insists on hurling insults at those he disagres with–in this case “imbecils” (sic) like me who question the constitutionality of a GOVERNMENT policy he advocates, without addressing the central point in my objection: States are not individuals. States are bound by legal rules and obligations. Individuals are bound by moral ones. What may be an appropriate course of action for an individual may not be so for a government.

Ivan — November 4, 2003 at 6:12 pm

I think jp’s last post deserves the last word (though I did post after it).

Jeff — November 4, 2003 at 7:17 pm

I don’t know about you guys, but I believe in Democracy. And, that’s what happened here. jp says “I like to think that the government is for the people and by the people, and that we still have our rights.”

The people spoke by electing the current leaders in the House, Senate and White House. The Democratic process unfolded by the lawmakers agreeing to fund certain programs. That’s how we do things here in America.

You have plenty of rights my friend as you live in the land of the free.

Tony L. — November 4, 2003 at 7:28 pm

Jeff, you consider being able to vote plenty of rights for everyone?

Parker — November 4, 2003 at 8:02 pm

Come on Jeff, stick to the subject. We all appreciate your love for democracy and we truly thank you for your civics lesson. The only problem is, your lack of understanding on the separation of powers, and the limitations imposed upon the elected representatives of a constitutional republic.
Nowhere and I mean nowhere does the United States Congress, The United States Senate and or the President of the United States have the constitutional authority to fund
anyone’s (even important superstars like Bono’s) favorite charity, cause, or special project. It’s unconstitutional, and it violates every single principle of freedom delineated in the Bill of Rights. No one, even elected representatives can vote to distribute someone’s income to another person, place, cause, thing, issue, whatever. The US government does have constitutional powers to make war, but they don’t have powers to fund Bono’s project of the month club. They can’t fund that legally, or morally without the express constitutionally adopted consent of the governed. So get off this vote stuff! It’s irrelevant just the same as they can’t vote and order people to be Christians. They can’t fund someone’s idea of an emergency. That is a moral decision left to the PEOPLE. And, if Bono wants 10,000 millionaires to give him 1 million dollars he can get his 10 Billion dollars. He just has to work hard to get it. Or he could get 100,000 millionaires to give him 100,000 dollars and he’ll get his 10 Billion. He just shouldn’t be getting his 10 Billion from the US taxpayer. No one is saying he doesn’t have the right to care, or to start any project he darn well pleases. He just can’t get the money from the US legally. He has no moral right to it, and no one has a moral obligation to give him anything. They have a duty to their fellow man to love him, serve him, and donate of their own free will but not at the threat of the IRS or some thief who hides behind them preaching some special cause. Now, if you want to help Bono-Go for it. If you want to give money-Go for it. Just don’t tell people they have to cause you think some vote of Congress means it’s okay.
If two wolves vote against one sheep on what’s for dinner does that mean lamb is morally obligated to be served? If Congress votes to outlaw the Islamic religion because of the War on terror does that mean we should listen to them? If Congress says we all have to give half of our paycheck to the crisis of the month fund are we obligated legally and morally to obey? The answers are all NO! And why? Because it would be unconstitutional, hence, it would be illegal.
Sheesh man- get a clue. See, now you went and made me lose my temper.

Jp or Jo — November 4, 2003 at 8:19 pm

I put jp last time by accident.

I must take my hat off to Parker yet again. I applaud your thinking as well as your articulation. It is such a pleasure to read what you have to say.

Thank you.

kitty — November 5, 2003 at 9:21 am

“America has to realize that it cannot select the World problems that it wants to address like some kind of global buffet.” That’s my favorite.
America, as a nation, should not be choosing any of the World Problems on the buffet table to “solve” with taxpayer money.
It’s lovely that Bono gives his own money to Africa, I applaud him. More individuals should do the same. But he should be asking other individuals, not governments, for donations to the African people. There are plenty of individuals who could be solicited, and then there would certainly not be the kind of waste involved when a project is funded with the seemingly endless supply of American tax dollars. An individual donating his own money directly for a cause he believes in will pay close attention to how the money is being used, and will not put up with any kind of squandering on nonessentials, simply because he knows the money didn’t grow on a tree. When tax dollars are used there is not the same sense of responsibility because we, the individual taxpayers, are not calling up every week to find out how things are going. We don’t know where or how our money is being spent. We “trust” that our leaders will spend it wisely for us, on our country and our problems and things that directly affect us. When they spend it on other countries and other problems instead of us, on the advice of a non-american citizen, it is offensive. Not because we think Africa should not be helped, but because Africa is not the reason we pay taxes. America is the reason we pay taxes.
This country was begun to avoid having the beliefs and morals of individuals decided and legislated by the government. What is this that is happening now? Our “moral obligations” decided by the government…
It is not something to stand by and idly watch. (Yes, Jeff, we can vote these people out of office if we don’t like what they are doing, but I haven’t seen ANY candidate who I would trust any more than the current set up. I feel that we have chosen the lesser of several evils, but it does not mean that these lesser evils should be accepted. If noone speaks up about these things, we will only ever see the same choices.)

Jeff — November 5, 2003 at 10:25 am

Jeff, you consider being able to vote plenty of rights for everyone?

Posted by: Tony L. at November 4, 2003 07:28 PM

Tony are you seriously saying the right to vote is the only one we have as Americans? That’s obviously not the case.

And, Kitty please speak up on your beliefs absolutely. But, don’t say Bono isn’t giving his own money when he is. Don’t say he’s demanding things when he admits he’s been pleading for help. Don’t say other nations aren’t pitching in when they are. Don’t say the guy doesn’t know anything when he clearly spent time learning about the issue and convinced very senior conservative Senators and administration officials that he does know the issue. Disagree on the merits, not falsehoods.

Rob — November 5, 2003 at 10:34 am

Jesus Christ, get over yourselves and your aversion to hearing anything from a “Non-American Citizen”. America was built by immigrants. Some Americans are just so ignorant, blinkered and insular that they have no concept of everyone being on this planet together.

Tony L. — November 5, 2003 at 12:02 pm

Jeff-No, that is not what I was saying. That is what I gathered from your comment, which read as follows: “The people spoke by electing the current leaders in the House, Senate and White House. The Democratic process unfolded by the lawmakers agreeing to fund certain programs. That’s how we do things here in America.

You have plenty of rights my friend as you live in the land of the free. ”
Please do not skim over my words next time.

Rob-I wasn’t aware Jesus Christ was posting anything. Kitty never said that Bono was not giving any of his own money to the cause. She specifically stated in the beggining of her comment that he IS giving his own money. Also, nobody said anything about not wanting to hear anything from an immigrant. They simply said that they do not like immigrants asking for their money.

Elaine — November 5, 2003 at 1:19 pm

Jesus Christ did talk about the rich man and Lazarus in St. Luke 16:19-31 which could be applicable to every person of any persuasion in any nation. The story goes: Lazarus, a beggar, was laid at the gate of a rich man. Lazarus begged for food, while the local dogs came and licked the sores covering his body. Everyday the rich man had to step over the body of poor Lazarus to go to and from his home, ignoring poor Lazarus all the while.
Now as I see it, the story could end right here and we could view it as just a story about man’s inhumanity to man and we could take comfort in knowing that the poor suffering souls like Lazarus that suffer in our own streets will one day be comforted in heaven while the rich, selfish, greedy, onlookers will burn in hell for their selfishness.
However, if we really think about it, Lazarus was lying right at the rich man’s door. Imagine a beggar laying at our door or the end of your driveway every day. And, like the rich man, every day when you leave your home you must drive by or step over your very own Lazarus. Now I’m no literalist, but let’s be honest; we all trip over, and step around our own Lazarus’. We see commercials, we see human beings on the streets of every big city, and even rural towns in America have their own types of Lazarus. And what do most of us do? We see the beggars and we judge in our minds and hearts, “Why are they in such need? They’re probably alcoholics, or druggies.” I know, I’ve been there done that. After being guilt ridden each time I ignored ‘Lazarus’ I decided to stop judging and just give them what I could. I mean, come on, what’s a couple or a few dollars? I just don’t worry about how this beggar might spend the money. He/she may go down to the local pub and use it beer, but then again they may not. But as I see it, at least the money came from ny own pocket and I made the decision on my own.
In the case of Bono and his African crisis, and a whole bunch of other countries just like it, I agree with John and Parker. These governments are corrupt and in most cases they are in political chaos. We all know what these politicos do with the money. We know Imelda Marcos had closets full of shoes. We know these leaders live in the lap of luxury with full bellies. We know the failure(s) of the world and we know they walk over their Lazarus’ every day. The bodies of men, women, and children who live on the streets, which are for them their toilets, kitchens, hospitals, sick-beds, and death beds too.
The leaders of these countries have a moral obligation too. And, as long as we continue to give them money which no one seems to be accountable for Lazarus will never go away. Nor will the corruption cease either.

No one can force morality on a person or a group of people. These people are amoral and to fund them is immoral. Give freely if you want, even to wickedness. But, I can’t refuse to do it when it comes to my taxes. I wish that I could. I can’t turn these vile governments (men) into compassionate souls. I wish I could do that, too. But I can choose to disagree with Jeff and Robo and also to do it without guilt.

Tony L. — November 5, 2003 at 1:21 pm

Since you have resorted to personal and offensive insult, I assume you are done.

Jerry Brito — November 5, 2003 at 4:48 pm

Guys, I love to see such a lively discussion, but posts with profanity or personal insults will be deleted. Keep it civil. -Jerry Brito, Editor, Brainwash

Parker — November 5, 2003 at 5:01 pm

Oh what a tangled web we weave……
Shame on you Rob, Robo, Jesus Christ.
Is that how you argue in debate class at your institute of higher learning?

What happened to your earlier posts exhorting everyone toward compassion and mercy?
I submit the following for your comment:

“Some Americans are just so ignorant, blinkered and insular that they have no concept of everyone being on this planet together.”

Who’s acting ignorantly?

“Elanor Ankrom epitomises the ugly American - selfish, ignorant and narrow-minded.”

Who’s being narrow-minded?

“America and Americans love to think of themselves as World liberators spreading democracy around the globe. But then they BECOME HOSTILE when a “non-citizen” of America has the utter cheek to ask for help on behalf of millions of starving and disease-ridden people.”

Who’s being hostile?

“This is something we ALL should be trying to solve.”

Is name-calling, and using vulgarity of the worst kind your idea of us ALL working together to solve problems?

No, it sounds like someone is having a temper tantrum because he has failed to posit a lucid, substantive argument based upon reasoned logic. I really hope you are humble enough and mature enough to issue an apology for your hateful words to Tony L.
We can all agree to disagree, but this is no way to win an argument.

kitty — November 6, 2003 at 8:51 am

jeff, i applauded bono for giving his own money and i never once said that he was uninformed or demanding, or that other nations do nothing to help…
please, disagree with the correct person, no?

and robo, bono is not an immigrant, but we can pretend that he is for the sake of this discussion. yes, this country was built by immigrants, and they continue to be absolutely vital to our melting pot society. in fact, my husband is a non american citizen - i have no problem hearing from anyone from this country or any other. but if my wonderful husband himself wanted to talk the leaders of this country into funding his own personal favorite charity with tax dollars i would disagree just as strongly as i do with bono. for that matter, if my mother, who is a citizen, wanted to fund her charity with tax money i would still disagree. the issue is not particularly that bono is non-american, it is what he is asking: for the use of tax money. his non citizen status merely makes his requests irritate more deeply.
(by the way, that’s the first time i have ever been called ignorant, blinkered OR insular…)

jo — November 6, 2003 at 9:53 am

I love Kittys point on what this country was founded on.

This country was begun to avoid having the beliefs and morals of individuals decided and legislated by the government. What is this that is happening now? Our “moral obligations” decided by the government… ”

everybody who was not fortunate to be born in america is a lot of people. Not just those in Africa.

Robo says:

“Doesn’t it just seem right to help people who were not fortunate enough to be born in America ? Purely on the premise that human beings are a compassionate species - does America not have a moral duty to help other human beings ?”
Well purely on the premise that human being are a compassionate species… How would a governmental system come into play? this is still a matter for the individual, to be compassionate, and charitable.I have also read many good arguments pointing out that it would be cheeper and more beneficial as far as everyone is concerned to donate to a charitable institution ( if one so desires ) and to give money to africa, or what ever the latest emergency is, in that manner. So on both sides of it, our rights as individuals and the benefit of the people as a whole are fullfilled. And why is it that africa right now is that emergency. Are we to take care of ONLY emergencys, OR all of the poor unfortunate people not born in america? ( that is a lot of money) Is american soil magical or something? Why can they not rise up against their oppressive governmet,( or lack of ) and fight their own wars and die their own deaths and fight for their own democracy, instead of taking money from already existing ( yet dwindling ) democracies? I realize that is rather far fetched to suggest that a nation takes care of its self…

It is NOT ( forgive me for repeating myself ) it is not for the Government to take care of its citizens’ moral obligations or to decide what its citizens’ moral obligations are. We don’t live in a monarchy. We do not have a state or national church.
Jeff my quote about the government for the people and by the people was in refrence to the fact that I do not think that the government, or you, or robo, or bono, or whoever else has a right to decide what the citizens of the united states of americas moral obligations are. I am aware of the democratic process.

Dave — January 23, 2004 at 12:34 pm

All you people who insult Bono are really wrong to do so. He has a heart to help people, and as a celebrety i admire that. And the comment about the music being boring is terrebly false. U2 has been reconized as one of the best bands ever. SHAME ON YOU!!! When people are dieing of dieses, they want help. It doesnt matter if the are in Africa, Irelen or next door to where you live its still a life that can be saved. God bless Bono and his willing heart to give up his TIME and MONEY to help these people and shame on all of you for your comments against him. He is a man with a servent heart who wants to help people who won’t have another chance. LONG LIVE BONO!!!

jason — March 4, 2004 at 5:16 am

I think it’s pretty obvious from the majority of posts here that far too many americans are becoming more self concerned and apathetic all the time. ….I mean, seriously, some of you could AT LEAST be honest about it. Why even bother with all this overly intellectual banter trying to convince ….I guess yourselves… and your scene or your peers, that your selfish views are somehow “good” or “rational”. Why should anyone care at all? No reason really. In fact, don’t even bother. Go right ahead and find new and creative ways to remain ignorant and selfserving….We all feel better after we kick people when they’re down anyway, don’t we? As long as we don’t know them. Apparently it’s the vogue thing to do these days…………………
What am I bitterly bantering about?? Look around and you’ll notice that there’s other people with the same needs as you. And definitley worthy of respect and maybe some help. Good luck.

Dylan Boswell — April 10, 2004 at 4:29 am

Why on earth is caring about something synonymous with spending other people’s money on it? Jason, Jeff, Robo et. all…No one here has said “Screw the Africans, they can all die as long as I can have my Big Mac and drive an Escalade,” but that is what you seem to think. Your concern for others is laudable, but you miss the logic. Bono is a nice man and he has the admirable goal of fixing the world, starting with Africa and “the AIDS” but that is still NOT THE POINT. It seems absurd that I have to point out that the crux of the issue here is where the money comes from. There is a lot of finger pointing and incendiary rhetoric, but obfuscation aside it boils down to where Bono gets the money. It is no measure of our nations moral character to judge us by what our government spends it’s stolen money on. Not Iraq, and not a rock star’s pet project. The sole measure of our nation’s character is the daily individual actions of its people. I’m sure millions of Americans would be utterly aghast if you suggested that “W” is their moral compass, as Robo does above. Perhaps we would give more generously to charity if we had back some of the thousands of dollars the average American pays in taxes each year, at least the Shrub helped on that score. And, it is no more morally compelling to insult the United States and hurl a guilt trip than it would be to hear your teenage daughter tell you she hates you because you wont raise her allowance. Honesty is not at issue, Jason, except perhaps to point out that you can’t honestly profess to have read the posts that preceded yours. Ultimately, it is most depressing that the only course of action that otherwise intelligent people can imagine to solve a problem of this magnitude is to come groveling with upturned palm at the feet of a government already far exceeding its constitutional reach, and whose spending far outstrips its ability to steal from its own citizens. For the record, I care deeply about the plight of Africans, having lived in Libya I know first hand its desperate poverty, but I care first for this country. It is the lazy person who would have his moral obligations fulfilled by proxy, in the form of state sponsored distributions funded by other people’s labor. So I will give my time, money and energy to the African cause once liberty is secure here at home. Those are MY priorities, and those who disagree are free to argue on behalf of their own, but don’t impugn my morality or insult my character because I resist an arrogant celebrity’s assumption of the right to spend my money, no matter how noble the cause…Crap! I just realized how old this thread is…Oh well, I’l post this anyway since I bothered to write it… : P

Maryse Munger — April 28, 2004 at 8:51 am

What Bono did is that he reminded M. Bush that only a third of the total amount of money he promised to give for helping countries dealing with aids (but also with other illnesses we are easily able to cure with medications WE can buy on the cheap) was actually provided, following the congress vote.

With a monthly debt of 200 000 000$ poor countries must reimburse to the rich ones, people there cannot buy the medications they need to cure illnesses we have eradicated long ago. The only thing Bono does is: denouncing hypocrisy. With his wonderful voice.

Besides, leaders and dictators from these poor countries will never be rounded up: they are backed up by rich countries, who want freehold of their ressources (oil, diamond, gold, coffee, cocoa, rubber, etc.)

Maryse

efc — July 14, 2004 at 2:27 am

Are we still open for comment here???

online sport gambling — October 25, 2004 at 1:27 pm

blackjack cheat sheet http://www.online-gambling-123.com/blackjack-cheat-sheet.html blackjack cheat sheet   coin slots http://www.online-gambling-123.com/coin-slots.html coin slots   blackjack+strategy http://www.online-gambling-123.com/blackjack+strategy.html blackjack+strategy   triple diamond slots http://www.online-gambling-123.com/triple-diamond-slots.html triple diamond slots   blackjack stategy http://www.online-gambling-123.com/blackjack-stategy.html blackjack stategy   National Gambling Impact Study Commission http://www.online-gambling-123.com/National-Gambling-Impact-Study-Commission.html National Gambling Impact Study Commission   alabama casinos http://www.online-gambling-123.com/alabama-casinos.html alabama casinos   free money gambling forums http://www.online-gambling-123.com/free-money-gambling-forums.html free money gambling forums   regeln http://www.online-gambling-123.com/regeln.html regeln   intertops http://www.online-gambling-123.com/intertops.html intertops   ameristar casino kansas city http://www.online-gambling-123.com/ameristar-casino-kansas-city.html ameristar casino kansas city   video poker instructions http://www.online-gambling-123.com/video-poker-instructions.html video poker instructions   video poker odds Atlantic City http://www.online-gambling-123.com/video-poker-odds-Atlantic-City.html video poker odds Atlantic City   illinois casinos http://www.online-gambling-123.com/illinois-casinos.html illinois casinos   tips on blackjack http://www.online-gambling-123.com/tips-on-blackjack.html tips on blackjack  

Gay Sex — October 28, 2004 at 2:35 pm

http://www.gay-sex-web.com/ Gay Sex http://www.gay-sex-web.com/gaydating.html Gay Dating http://www.gay-sex-web.com/gaysingles.html Gay Singles http://www.gay-sex-web.com/gayporn.html Gay Porn http://www.gay-sex-web.com/gaypersonals.html Gay Personals

online gambling — October 29, 2004 at 3:54 am

http://www.online-gambling-123.com/online-gambling.html online gambling http://www.online-gambling-123.com/online-casino-gambling.html online casino gambling http://www.online-gambling-123.com/online-casino-games.html online casino games http://www.online-gambling-123.com/casino-bonus.html online casino bonus

Jason — April 24, 2005 at 12:29 pm

It almost seems silly to even pose the question “why does everyone hate Americans?”, when Eleanor Ankrom makes it so blatantly clear. Until you realize that it’s the Eleanor Ankroms that both attract the hatred and ask the question, befuddled with the agressive and focused disgust at America.

So why does everybody hate Americans, Eleanor? Let me answer the question for you, since it is clearly beyond you to do so yourself because, for all your readings on “world history and international affairs”, you clearly never learned much useful to human wellbeing on a global scale. So here it comes Eleanor: Everobody hates Americans because the Eleanor Ankroms speak loudest for America, and because when they speak they blaspheme against a basic human value. Common to the 10 largest religions and even embedded in most progressive constitutions is the fundamental value: “do unto others…”. And that is not a responsive guide, it is an attitudinal and motivational guide which dictates that excellent examples of human beings and societies are such because they go out of their way to help others who can not help themselves.

But not only do you absolutely refuse to ackonwledge or endorse that value, you go a step further: you condemn others who do acknowledge it because of the way in which they choose to acknowledge it, without even pausing to recognize that their “hypocritical and exploitative” approach is doing a lot more to help this world (of which, let me remind the Eleanors that have forgotten, you are part) than what you are doing, which is f… all.

I hope it makes you sleep better at night justifying your selfish neglect of the world’s problems by criticizing others’ approach to solving those problems. I hope you feel great that $3 of your annual income tax will not in fact feed an african child for a month, and can afterall contribute to yet another gun ship or semi-automatic weapon that can be used “protecting” america (pre-emptively, of course) from the very people that ironically hate you for this very attitude.

gambling online — July 17, 2005 at 8:29 am

You are invited to take a look at the pages in the field of casino web site casino web site http://www.casino-go.com/casino-web-site.html http://www.casino-go.com/casino-web-site.html internet casinos internet casinos http://www.casino-go.com/internet-casinos.html http://www.casino-go.com/internet-casinos.html betting odds betting odds http://www.casino-go.com/betting-odds.html http://www.casino-go.com/betting-odds.html betting line betting line http://www.casino-go.com/betting-line.html http://www.casino-go.com/betting-line.html how to win at blackjack how to win at blackjack http://www.casino-go.com/how-to-win-at-blackjack.html http://www.casino-go.com/how-to-win-at-blackjack.html roulette wheel roulette wheel http://www.casino-go.com/roulette-wheel.html http://www.casino-go.com/roulette-wheel.html online black jack online black jack http://www.casino-go.com/online-black-jack.html http://www.casino-go.com/online-black-jack.html free online casino games free online casino games http://www.casino-go.com/free-online-casino-games.html http://www.casino-go.com/free-online-casino-games.html gambling online gambling online http://www.casino-go.com/gambling-online.html http://www.casino-go.com/gambling-online.html blackjack games blackjack games http://www.casino-go.com/blackjack-games.html http://www.casino-go.com/blackjack-games.html black jack black jack http://www.casino-go.com/black-jack.html http://www.casino-go.com/black-jack.html roulette games roulette games http://www.casino-go.com/roulette-games.html http://www.casino-go.com/roulette-games.html las vegas slot machine las vegas slot machine http://www.casino-go.com/las-vegas-slot-machine.html http://www.casino-go.com/las-vegas-slot-machine.html blackjack strategy blackjack strategy http://www.casino-go.com/blackjack-strategy.html http://www.casino-go.com/blackjack-strategy.html casino games casino games http://www.casino-go.com/casino-games.html http://www.casino-go.com/casino-games.html virtual casino virtual casino http://www.casino-go.com/virtual-casino.html http://www.casino-go.com/virtual-casino.html casino online casino online http://www.casino-go.com/casino-online.html http://www.casino-go.com/casino-online.html free blackjack free blackjack http://www.casino-go.com/free-blackjack.html http://www.casino-go.com/free-blackjack.html casinos online casinos online http://www.casino-go.com/casinos-online.html http://www.casino-go.com/casinos-online.html free casino games free casino games http://www.casino-go.com/free-casino-games.html http://www.casino-go.com/free-casino-games.html online roulette online roulette http://www.casino-go.com/online-roulette.html http://www.casino-go.com/online-roulette.html betting exchange betting exchange http://www.casino-go.com/betting-exchange.html http://www.casino-go.com/betting-exchange.html casino directory casino directory http://www.casino-go.com/casino-directory.html http://www.casino-go.com/casino-directory.html craps craps http://www.casino-go.com/craps.html http://www.casino-go.com/craps.html gambling casino online gambling casino online http://www.casino-go.com/gambling-casino-online.html http://www.casino-go.com/gambling-casino-online.html roulette roulette http://www.casino-go.com/roulette.html http://www.casino-go.com/roulette.html casino slot machines casino slot machines http://www.casino-go.com/casino-slot-machines.html http://www.casino-go.com/casino-slot-machines.html casino slots casino slots http://www.casino-go.com/casino-slots.html http://www.casino-go.com/casino-slots.html online casino online casino http://www.casino-go.com/online-casino.html http://www.casino-go.com/online-casino.html casino on net casino on net http://www.casino-go.com/casino-on-net.html http://www.casino-go.com/casino-on-net.html .

casino gambling — July 18, 2005 at 2:39 am

Please check out some helpful info dedicated to online casino gambling online casino gambling http://www.casino-go.com/online-casino-gambling.html http://www.casino-go.com/online-casino-gambling.html casino on net casino on net http://www.casino-go.com/casino-on-net.html http://www.casino-go.com/casino-on-net.html online casino online casino http://www.casino-go.com/online-casino.html http://www.casino-go.com/online-casino.html internet casino internet casino http://www.casino-go.com/internet-casino.html http://www.casino-go.com/internet-casino.html casino online casino online http://www.casino-go.com/casino-online.html http://www.casino-go.com/casino-online.html roulette roulette http://www.casino-go.com/roulette.html http://www.casino-go.com/roulette.html casino games casino games http://www.casino-go.com/casino-games.html http://www.casino-go.com/casino-games.html online casinos online casinos http://www.casino-go.com/online-casinos.html http://www.casino-go.com/online-casinos.html slot machines slot machines http://www.casino-go.com/slot-machines.html http://www.casino-go.com/slot-machines.html casino gambling casino gambling http://www.casino-go.com/casino-gambling.html http://www.casino-go.com/casino-gambling.html - Tons of interesdting stuff!!!

888 poker download — July 23, 2005 at 11:19 am

You may find it interesting to check out some relevant information dedicated to Pacific Poker Pacific Poker http://www.2002sogwipo.com/ http://www.2002sogwipo.com/ .

casino playing cards — July 24, 2005 at 3:14 pm

You are invited to visit some relevant pages about blackjack games blackjack games http://www.specific-casino.com/blackjack-games.html http://www.specific-casino.com/blackjack-games.html internet casinos internet casinos http://www.specific-casino.com/internet-casinos.html http://www.specific-casino.com/internet-casinos.html blackjack strategies blackjack strategies http://www.specific-casino.com/blackjack-strategies.html http://www.specific-casino.com/blackjack-strategies.html casino directory casino directory http://www.specific-casino.com/casino-directory.html http://www.specific-casino.com/casino-directory.html online keno online keno http://www.specific-casino.com/online-keno.html http://www.specific-casino.com/online-keno.html casino bonus casino bonus http://www.specific-casino.com/casino-bonus.html http://www.specific-casino.com/casino-bonus.html roulette roulette http://www.specific-casino.com/roulette.html http://www.specific-casino.com/roulette.html slot machine games slot machine games http://www.specific-casino.com/slot-machine-games.html http://www.specific-casino.com/slot-machine-games.html best online casino best online casino http://www.specific-casino.com/best-online-casino.html http://www.specific-casino.com/best-online-casino.html internet casino internet casino http://www.specific-casino.com/internet-casino.html http://www.specific-casino.com/internet-casino.html slot machine slot machine http://www.specific-casino.com/slot-machine.html http://www.specific-casino.com/slot-machine.html online casino bonus online casino bonus http://www.specific-casino.com/online-casino-bonus.html http://www.specific-casino.com/online-casino-bonus.html casino download casino download http://www.specific-casino.com/casino-download.html http://www.specific-casino.com/casino-download.html casino web site casino web site http://www.specific-casino.com/casino-web-site.html http://www.specific-casino.com/casino-web-site.html online casino online casino http://www.specific-casino.com/online-casino.html http://www.specific-casino.com/online-casino.html blackjack rules blackjack rules http://www.specific-casino.com/blackjack-rules.html http://www.specific-casino.com/blackjack-rules.html online casinos online casinos http://www.specific-casino.com/online-casinos.html http://www.specific-casino.com/online-casinos.html online casino gambling online casino gambling http://www.specific-casino.com/online-casino-gambling.html http://www.specific-casino.com/online-casino-gambling.html casinos ranked casinos ranked http://www.specific-casino.com/casinos-ranked.html http://www.specific-casino.com/casinos-ranked.html las vegas casino hotels las vegas casino hotels http://www.specific-casino.com/las-vegas-casino-hotels.html http://www.specific-casino.com/las-vegas-casino-hotels.html strip blackjack strip blackjack http://www.specific-casino.com/strip-blackjack.html http://www.specific-casino.com/strip-blackjack.html free casino game free casino game http://www.specific-casino.com/free-casino-game.html http://www.specific-casino.com/free-casino-game.html free slot machines games free slot machines games http://www.specific-casino.com/free-slot-machines-games.html http://www.specific-casino.com/free-slot-machines-games.html craps craps http://www.specific-casino.com/craps.html http://www.specific-casino.com/craps.html internet gambling internet gambling http://www.specific-casino.com/internet-gambling.html http://www.specific-casino.com/internet-gambling.html online craps online craps http://www.specific-casino.com/online-craps.html http://www.specific-casino.com/online-craps.html betting exchange betting exchange http://www.specific-casino.com/betting-exchange.html http://www.specific-casino.com/betting-exchange.html free online gambling free online gambling http://www.specific-casino.com/free-online-gambling.html http://www.specific-casino.com/free-online-gambling.html online blackjack online blackjack http://www.specific-casino.com/online-blackjack.html http://www.specific-casino.com/online-blackjack.html black jack black jack http://www.specific-casino.com/black-jack.html http://www.specific-casino.com/black-jack.html …

casino online — July 25, 2005 at 1:06 am

Take your time to take a look at the pages in the field of online casino online casino http://www.specific-casino.com/online-casino.html http://www.specific-casino.com/online-casino.html online casino gambling online casino gambling http://www.specific-casino.com/online-casino-gambling.html http://www.specific-casino.com/online-casino-gambling.html online casinos online casinos http://www.specific-casino.com/online-casinos.html http://www.specific-casino.com/online-casinos.html slot machines slot machines http://www.specific-casino.com/slot-machines.html http://www.specific-casino.com/slot-machines.html casino games casino games http://www.specific-casino.com/casino-games.html http://www.specific-casino.com/casino-games.html casino on net casino on net http://www.specific-casino.com/casino-on-net.html http://www.specific-casino.com/casino-on-net.html roulette roulette http://www.specific-casino.com/roulette.html http://www.specific-casino.com/roulette.html internet casino internet casino http://www.specific-casino.com/internet-casino.html http://www.specific-casino.com/internet-casino.html casino gambling casino gambling http://www.specific-casino.com/casino-gambling.html http://www.specific-casino.com/casino-gambling.html casino online casino online http://www.specific-casino.com/casino-online.html http://www.specific-casino.com/casino-online.html …

augmentin — July 28, 2005 at 11:36 am

In your free time, visit some relevant information about weight loss pill weight loss pill http://www.pills-home.com/weight-loss-pill.html http://www.pills-home.com/weight-loss-pill.html morning after pill morning after pill http://www.pills-home.com/morning-after-pill.html http://www.pills-home.com/morning-after-pill.html phentermine online phentermine online http://www.pills-home.com/phentermine-online.html http://www.pills-home.com/phentermine-online.html canadian pharmacies canadian pharmacies http://www.pills-home.com/canadian-pharmacies.html http://www.pills-home.com/canadian-pharmacies.html pharmacy pharmacy http://www.pills-home.com/pharmacy.html http://www.pills-home.com/pharmacy.html buy viagra buy viagra http://www.pills-home.com/buy-viagra.html http://www.pills-home.com/buy-viagra.html paxil paxil http://www.pills-home.com/paxil.html http://www.pills-home.com/paxil.html online prescription online prescription http://www.pills-home.com/online-prescription.html http://www.pills-home.com/online-prescription.html pills pills http://www.pills-home.com/pills.html http://www.pills-home.com/pills.html didrex didrex http://www.pills-home.com/didrex.html http://www.pills-home.com/didrex.html cheap tramadol cheap tramadol http://www.pills-home.com/cheap-tramadol.html http://www.pills-home.com/cheap-tramadol.html buy phentermine buy phentermine http://www.pills-home.com/buy-phentermine.html http://www.pills-home.com/buy-phentermine.html buy tramadol buy tramadol http://www.pills-home.com/buy-tramadol.html http://www.pills-home.com/buy-tramadol.html phentermine on line phentermine on line http://www.pills-home.com/phentermine-on-line.html http://www.pills-home.com/phentermine-on-line.html tramadol online tramadol online http://www.pills-home.com/tramadol-online.html http://www.pills-home.com/tramadol-online.html buy ultram online buy ultram online http://www.pills-home.com/buy-ultram-online.html http://www.pills-home.com/buy-ultram-online.html ambien ambien http://www.pills-home.com/ambien.html http://www.pills-home.com/ambien.html buy levitra online buy levitra online http://www.pills-home.com/buy-levitra-online.html http://www.pills-home.com/buy-levitra-online.html buy ambien online buy ambien online http://www.pills-home.com/buy-ambien-online.html http://www.pills-home.com/buy-ambien-online.html discount viagra discount viagra http://www.pills-home.com/discount-viagra.html http://www.pills-home.com/discount-viagra.html lisinopril lisinopril http://www.pills-home.com/lisinopril.html http://www.pills-home.com/lisinopril.html adipex adipex http://www.pills-home.com/adipex.html http://www.pills-home.com/adipex.html ativan ativan http://www.pills-home.com/ativan.html http://www.pills-home.com/ativan.html buy ambien buy ambien http://www.pills-home.com/buy-ambien.html http://www.pills-home.com/buy-ambien.html phentermine phentermine http://www.pills-home.com/phentermine.html http://www.pills-home.com/phentermine.html viagra online viagra online http://www.pills-home.com/viagra-online.html http://www.pills-home.com/viagra-online.html mobic mobic http://www.pills-home.com/mobic.html http://www.pills-home.com/mobic.html canada pharmacy canada pharmacy http://www.pills-home.com/canada-pharmacy.html http://www.pills-home.com/canada-pharmacy.html meridia meridia http://www.pills-home.com/meridia.html http://www.pills-home.com/meridia.html cephalexin cephalexin http://www.pills-home.com/cephalexin.html http://www.pills-home.com/cephalexin.html - Tons of interesdting stuff!!!

proscar effectiveness — August 4, 2005 at 4:21 pm

proscar versus saw palmetto proscar finasteride http://yasamohuel.de.kakiko.com/proscar/proscar_in_europe.html proscar medication non rx proscar http://yasamohuel.de.kakiko.com/proscar/proscar_symptoms_of_overdose.html and …. proscar and dose proscar tablet http://yasamohuel.de.kakiko.com/proscar/proscar_doses.html proscar vs propecia proscar and hair loss http://yasamohuel.de.kakiko.com/proscar/discount_proscar.html proscar medication online proscar http://yasamohuel.de.kakiko.com/proscar/proscar_side_affect_of.html .Thanks.

world series of poker — August 5, 2005 at 6:30 am

Take your time to visit some relevant information about party poker party poker http://www.poker-new.com/party-poker.html http://www.poker-new.com/party-poker.html official poker rules official poker rules http://www.poker-new.com/official-poker-rules.html http://www.poker-new.com/official-poker-rules.html longest poker game longest poker game http://www.poker-new.com/longest-poker-game.html http://www.poker-new.com/longest-poker-game.html poker rule poker rule http://www.poker-new.com/poker-rule.html http://www.poker-new.com/poker-rule.html on line poker on line poker http://www.poker-new.com/on-line-poker.html http://www.poker-new.com/on-line-poker.html free poker free poker http://www.poker-new.com/free-poker.html http://www.poker-new.com/free-poker.html poker rules poker rules http://www.poker-new.com/poker-rules.html http://www.poker-new.com/poker-rules.html party poker bonus code party poker bonus code http://www.poker-new.com/party-poker-bonus-code.html http://www.poker-new.com/party-poker-bonus-code.html free strip poker free strip poker http://www.poker-new.com/free-strip-poker.html http://www.poker-new.com/free-strip-poker.html online poker online poker http://www.poker-new.com/online-poker.html http://www.poker-new.com/online-poker.html free rules for poker free rules for poker http://www.poker-new.com/free-rules-for-poker.html http://www.poker-new.com/free-rules-for-poker.html cowboy poker cowboy poker http://www.poker-new.com/cowboy-poker.html http://www.poker-new.com/cowboy-poker.html poker game download poker game download http://www.poker-new.com/poker-game-download.html http://www.poker-new.com/poker-game-download.html holdem holdem http://www.poker-new.com/holdem.html http://www.poker-new.com/holdem.html poker terms poker terms http://www.poker-new.com/poker-terms.html http://www.poker-new.com/poker-terms.html poker rooms poker rooms http://www.poker-new.com/poker-rooms.html http://www.poker-new.com/poker-rooms.html play free poker play free poker http://www.poker-new.com/play-free-poker.html http://www.poker-new.com/play-free-poker.html free poker game free poker game http://www.poker-new.com/free-poker-game.html http://www.poker-new.com/free-poker-game.html world poker world poker http://www.poker-new.com/world-poker.html http://www.poker-new.com/world-poker.html poker table poker table http://www.poker-new.com/poker-table.html http://www.poker-new.com/poker-table.html strip poker games strip poker games http://www.poker-new.com/strip-poker-games.html http://www.poker-new.com/strip-poker-games.html poker hand poker hand http://www.poker-new.com/poker-hand.html http://www.poker-new.com/poker-hand.html poker hand rankings poker hand rankings http://www.poker-new.com/poker-hand-rankings.html http://www.poker-new.com/poker-hand-rankings.html poker hands poker hands http://www.poker-new.com/poker-hands.html http://www.poker-new.com/poker-hands.html card poker card poker http://www.poker-new.com/card-poker.html http://www.poker-new.com/card-poker.html poker tournament poker tournament http://www.poker-new.com/poker-tournament.html http://www.poker-new.com/poker-tournament.html poker poker http://www.poker-new.com/poker.html http://www.poker-new.com/poker.html free poker games free poker games http://www.poker-new.com/free-poker-games.html http://www.poker-new.com/free-poker-games.html caribbean stud poker caribbean stud poker http://www.poker-new.com/cari